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On the Street.....A Real Jacket For Women, Milan

 
 
 
 
 















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Sunday, November 25, 2007

On the Street.....A Real Jacket For Women, Milan

I long to see more women on the street wearing real jackets not just those high-hip, shrunken jackets that overflow the racks of Banana Republic and Ann Taylor.

I also long to see more women wearing their jacket sleeves at the right length. This young model has a great sleeve length which would be more obvious if she were wearing a long-sleeve blouse underneath. This is a simple alteration and you don't need to be a model for it to look great.

posted by The Sartorialist at 8:10 AM

Comments on "On the Street.....A Real Jacket For Women, Milan"

 

Blogger Amanda said ... (9:44 AM) : 

I agree that a longer jacket looks great on a girl like this... but, it would have the potential to swallow up a short person like me. I have two jackets in this length, and I seldom wear them because they make me feel like I've borrowed my father's clothes. Now, I do want to get the sleeves on those full length jackets altered as shown; it might make all the difference.

 

Blogger The Spicers said ... (10:09 AM) : 

Being a model certainly helps, but agreed, this outfit would look great on any number of women. I LOVE the high-waisted Hepburn trousers with blouse tucked in, combined with the purple satin heels.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:10 AM) : 

she's a model and they know what to wear and how to look good

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:11 AM) : 

awsome, cute girl

 

Blogger The Sartorialist said ... (11:18 AM) : 

Sorry Amanda but you fell into my trap!!

I knew some women would say that

if you buy a jacket that fits correctly ,as in, jacket length, sleeve length, fit of shoulder then it will look great - even if you need to do some alterations

it is the exact same elements we talk about for men (with the exception of how the jacket fits the chest)

The problem is most women don't take the time to buy a jacket that fits correctly. They want the fashion more than the fit.

Also please don't discount this image just because it is shot on a model

her being a model has nothing to do with the idea we are discussing.

 

Blogger Jael Paris said ... (11:38 AM) : 

I like the shrunken jackets because they fit my style. I have some regular size jackets too. As a petite person, both styles can be difficult to buy. I don't want to look like I stole my father's jacket, as Amanda said, nor do I want to look like I had a laundry incident.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:48 AM) : 

I love this look! My friend wore basically this for quite a few years... But i must say that i find it REALLY difficult to find a real jacket that will really fit me. What usually happens for me is: not long enough sleeves, shoulders out of place, the body's too big.... I end up buying in the children's section so that it fits perfect... except for the sleeves!
I think I need to find a nice tailor...

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:53 AM) : 

AGREED.
I get crazy over this exact subject. I am a young artist in New York and unable to afford exactly the quality I'd like, but my tweaked jackets are some of my most complimented clothing items, even by those who could afford far more expensive pieces.

These classic differences are just that, classic differences, mildly harmonious, and subtly pleasing.

 

Blogger MARIA H said ... (11:56 AM) : 

I have many reservations about this trend.
The "real" factor in the jacket is just the old "baggy jacket" revisited.
It is not a higher appreciation for bigger jackets, as much as a deviation from the "normal" jacket on the market these days: it is a trend with early adapters. The fact that this individual displays it as an exception does not make the jackets in the market wrong...why because of their life cycle of the fitted jacket?

The question I ask is, why is it more real? Is it because is a very male silhouette?

The problem: It works better for women with slim and tall frames...
That is less than 1% of women.
The jacket looks more like a borrowed jacket from a male friend...Why is this "real"?
It is not tailored for a female figure.
This jacket falls over the hips and the behind. And has a broader back: it is BIG.

She looks gorgeous. But the trend will make most women have a the silhouette of appliances.

Of course there will always be a exceptional individuals that will make anything look cool specially when having the hanger frame for a male "inspired" jacket.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:07 PM) : 

She looks gorgeous and stylish--height of sophistication--but I don't do a jacket like this for one simple reason: it makes me feel masculine.

I will probably never wear a jacket like this. Not my style. I like to look 100% woman and nothing is more masculine to me than this type of jacket.

I'd rather wear a flannel shirt...

I do keep my suit jacket sleeves that length, however--as you say looks great with your shirt cuffs poking out.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:09 PM) : 

One more thing: double breasted also makes me feel too masculine.

I'm very sensitive to masculine jackets--I'm not a woman who wants to wear them.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:14 PM) : 

I love the bag!!

Any idea where to get it?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:04 PM) : 

Sart, what is the expression "fell into my trap" supposed to be? Sorry, but that sounds very snotty to me.

 

Blogger Carolina Lange said ... (1:50 PM) : 

She looks amazing, love her outfit!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:51 PM) : 

makes me think of an article about wearing tuxedo from UK Vogue. I like this jacket soooooooooooo much!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (2:17 PM) : 

Yes please!
"Real" clothes , please!
In a modern way.
Please show us more of that.
I´m getting a bit tired of "creative dressing".
More "boring old classics" ,please.

 

Blogger Amanda said ... (2:29 PM) : 

Fair enough! I will have to see how my longer jackets look with the sleeves altered, before I discount them as no good for someone little like me. A jacket like that lends a bit more gravitas to the look than the shrunken ones usually do--which I like. Great picture, at any rate :)

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:00 PM) : 

Ah! Those pants, those shoes, that pose! And of course the jacket... amazing.
I guess I'm in the clear, as my arms are unnaturally long, all my sleeves hit there, regardless. I usually push my sleeves up, though, which I'm sure is completely WRONG ><

 

Blogger tn said ... (3:28 PM) : 

This is an incredible picture -- our main girl looks amazing, I love her pants, the shoes are great, how wonderful that her Muse is brown; but look at the Chanel bag behind her, and the satin skirt next to her!! You found Fashion Alley!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:39 PM) : 

If I was six feet tall and gazelle-like I could get away with jackets like that, too. In fact, even if I was just more gazelle-like. Amanda is right, shorter, rounder women get lost in those jackets. A nice ass and some boobs turn into one solid mass under a suit, with no hint of a waist. Think of female beurocrats working in washington in the late 80's and early 90's and maybe you'll get the idea?

Yes, yes, it's all about fit. But the basic idea of what you are showing here: the shoulders, the loose flow countered against the traditional fabric, the structure, can and do go totally wrong on a woman with a chest. You end up with a shoulder/chest/prow and there's just nothing else to see.

On the other hand, there are plenty of gazelle-like creatures in New York who may take you up on your suggestion.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:44 PM) : 

if you can find a non model wearing a real jacket then I will believe...........

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:04 PM) : 

I have a classic navy brooks brothers blazer (gold buttons and all) that I adore and is that length, but I always try it on, and then hang it up thinking the proportions are just weird on someone who is 5'4, even if I do have long legs.

I think I just figured out the secret though! All I need is nice wideleg pants (skinnies are too 80s) and a nice pair of heels?

advice anyone?

 

Blogger philip said ... (4:26 PM) : 

I can almost not handle how devastatingly gorgeous this woman looks. And did we notice the bright violet shoes? Oh, those shoes! This woman is a treasure. Equal parts business and beauty. Love it.

 

Blogger amy said ... (4:35 PM) : 

I've been visiting your blog for almost a year now, and I am a big fan of your fashion sense and your photography! I was wondering what are the specs for your camera and if you use any other equipment for taking photos?

Thanks! And keep it up!

 

Blogger Susan B said ... (4:41 PM) : 

Sart, it's more than just sleeve and hem length for us petite gals. It's also about where the waist hits (and buttons, pockets, etc.), which is tougher to alter, which is why the 3/4 sleeve swing jackets have been such a boon for the vertically challenged. That said, it's a beautiful jacket, and I'd eagerly wear one like it.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:14 PM) : 

As a petite female, I have a huge amount of trouble finding decent-fitting jackets. Why aren't women's jackets made like men's, in that the sleeves can be easily shortened? The last time I bought a jacket that fit through the shoulders and torso, I had to sacrifice the bottom button on the sleeve to make it even close to the right length. I swear my proportions are not abnormal! Seriously annoying. Sart, maybe you have some pull with the industry?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:31 PM) : 

I'm with Amanda (also petite), and I agree about the fit of the jacket. However, one issue for me and maybe others who are not tall and may want to find a good jacket is the double- vs. single-breasted jacket.

A jacket like the one shown would totally hide my body behind the placket, and without long legs below it becomes a main event. So for me to wear a jacket like this it would have to drape very deliberately, or be single-breasted.

 

Blogger The Sartorialist said ... (5:46 PM) : 

Why is a woman that is 5'4" different than a man that is 5'4"?

the are worried about the same issues of height versus width.

I still maintain that it can be easily done

I big problem is that very few good options in longer jackets are available in stores so women have lost the eye for how to work with that length.

ps
I knew this was going to be the issue so I jokingly said "fell into my trap"

 

Blogger Casey said ... (6:11 PM) : 

I have some lovely Armani jackets of this type, but clearly I need to have all the sleeves altered.
Sart, is there a preferred measurement between sleep ending and wrist? I need guidelines.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:20 PM) : 

An off-the-rack approximation of this jacket would not work on woman who is 5'2" with 36-24-38 measurements. The necessary altering--which in this case would probably be a complete reconstruction--would easily exceed the cost of the jacket itself.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:36 PM) : 

Sart,

As yet another petite woman, I can tell you that jackets are a TOTAL pain to buy when you're a woman.

I'm 5'4, and either a 4 or a 6, but almost every jacket I try on makes me look like an ex-linebacker furniture salesman from 1978. Seriously. Even with the help of thoroughly competent salespeople at reputable shops, I find it nearly impossible to find jackets.

A jacket of the type you've photographed (spectacular, by the way) skims over the chest and ass. This is ok, if your not so curvy. But if your main assets are in those areas, there is little incentive to skim over them (and negate your waistline in the process). For men, there is less variation in circumference between the chest, waist, and hips... so it works for them. But for us little curvy women, buying this type of jacket is a serious risk.

I wear jackets often (I'm a law student) and they always have the perfect sleeve length. They nip in at the waist. They hit just above the widest part of my hip. Otherwise, they create the furniture salesman effect.

I'm siding with Amanda, and all the others of my ilk. Until you have serious curves, I'm afraid I won't be able to accept your suggestions in jacket fitting.

Sorry!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (7:17 PM) : 

c'mon girls, we have to face the fact that not EVERY piece we LOVE are "right" for us for many different reasons. c'est la vie...

 

Blogger Susan B said ... (7:23 PM) : 

I love the bag!!

Any idea where to get it?

It's a YSL "Muse" bag. I believe both Saks and Neimans carry it.

 

Blogger Susan B said ... (7:29 PM) : 

Why is a woman that is 5'4" different than a man that is 5'4"?



Contours, honey. Boobs, waist, hips. Most men are (relatively) straight up and down, so their clothes tend to fall from the shoulders. But we women who aren't models have lumps and bumps that affect the fit of the clothing. When I try on a fitted jacket that's sized for a woman over 5'4", the narrowest part of the waist may hit me just about at the hipbone.

 

Blogger Susan B said ... (7:39 PM) : 

Sorry to keep adding comments; also wanted to say I agree with those who said that shorter women tend to look better in single-breasted styles.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:27 PM) : 

So this post points to the sleeve after all, and as an admirer of the sartorial game of the suit, I would love to play with sleeve length.

But I (anon 5:31) and some others who have responded can't get past the problem of the overall jacket. It is much on my mind. I sew for myself and I favor chanel-style suits, not just because they are less complicated to make but also because the adjustments are easier.

What is the difference between me and a man my height (5'2", poor guy)? Maybe a short man also needs to have his suits tailor-made, because the lapel should fall at the right place on his body. For me the lapel needs to frame the neck and face properly, but being designed for a tall woman the neckline on a suit off the rack is usually too deep and the shoulders are often too wide. The jacket suggests a larger person. An inch off makes a huge difference.

But, Mr. Sartorialist, show us a photo of a petite woman in this kind of jacket and I at least will be convinced. Maybe this shot of yours is a hint, the way the good fit and high waisted skirt help the look?

 

Blogger Blaise said ... (8:29 PM) : 

I love jackets, but here in our tropical country,I couldn't wear them that much.. I agree with the length issue (arm length, that is), Sart. It is kind of difficult to find a jacket with just the perfect length, at least if it's ready-to-wear.. Most of the time, I don't have the time to go to the tailor..

 

Blogger The Sartorialist said ... (9:06 PM) : 

Deja Pseu

that is an excuse!!!

your boobs are my gut!

believe me, men are not straight up and down

We have curves!!

if a man is up and down then they need to work harder to not look like a fabric block in a jacket

at least a woman does have curves which a jacket can accentuate (in a good way)

I mean all we are talking about is a jacket that is just a little longer

if woman were really soooo worried about how they look in clothes then the whole Uggs thing NEVER would have gotten off the ground

lets be honest, women don't wear longer jackets because they are difficult to fit - they dont wear them because they don't see other women wearing them (just like men)

I guess my point with this post is that in some areas men and women really do have the same issues

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:22 PM) : 

Aren't ultra-wide belts *in* this season?
One would look great on her if the jacket incorporated a waistline.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:38 PM) : 

I've always liked a long jacker like this, but I'm not against the shrunken ones either. :)

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:07 PM) : 

I was just telling my friend the exact same thing today! I find that very short jackets, which I see so frequently on racks, are rather unflattering on most women. I'm lucky enough to fit into my older brother's skinnier hand-me-down jackets from when he was young. With a bit of tailoring, they can sometimes be worn by women.

 

Blogger Susan B said ... (10:07 PM) : 

Sart, please. I've *never* worn Uggs! :-p

Actually, jackets are staples in my wardrobe. I think a jacket can make just about anything else you wear look pulled together. I just stick to single-breasted jackets in Petite sizes. Yes, it's a bit limiting, but better than spending a lot of money on something that will never quite fit right.

 

Blogger sisty said ... (10:17 PM) : 

Come on now, people! It's just a matter of training your eye -- that jacket is not particularly long. It just covers the crotch and, I suspect, in the back, the bottom of the curves of the cheeks. The beautiful tuxedo shape, which is flattering to nearly all women, is quite a bit longer -- nearly fingertip length.

I think we're so used to seeing short, shrunken jackets, it's going to take a while to adjust. But short and shrunken is not ideal either, unless you have really long legs.

What works about this outfit, I think, is that she's monochromatic from head to toe under the jacket. It's a gorgeous look, and you don't have to be tall and skinny to pull it off, either, IMO.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:32 PM) : 

Thank you for pointing at the generic nature of those shrunken jackets... They are everywhere! making lots of women look like cabbages.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:38 PM) : 

You arguments about women not wearing jackets like this one are just speculations.
As you can see the big majority of WOMEN that have commented say that these type of jackets are not flattering unless you are a model. Maybe your romance with male shaped jackets don't let you see how trends are not the only things that women take into account when choosing clothing.

 

Blogger MARIA H said ... (10:39 PM) : 

Scott are you saying that women wear something only taking into account how "popular" a trend is? MMMMM. don't agree at all.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:17 PM) : 

Sart, you're still wrong; any man with a 10" difference between their waist and chest measurement is probably deformed, and it will never, ever, jut out at the same angle as a pair of large breasts; a gut is a gentle curve.

OTOH, I'm not really a fan of the shrunken jacket; they don't look too bad with a skirt, but the rear view in pants tends to be rather too revealing.

I'm 5'9", and I have the opposite problem to petite women; the clothes that get shipped (as opposed to the ones on the catwalk) are designed for women shorter than me. Sleeves are usually too short, waists are too high, and hems are proportionally too short. I can't buy skirts off the rack; I like the full printed ones, but on me they hit about an inch above the knee - I look like I've been shopping in the kids department, and they may me look fat. Straight skirts are usually too short, so when I sit down it rides up to a level that a 47yo in a suit just shouldn't wear :-).

Because of my 14DD bust and size 12 hips, jackets are either bindingly snug around the bust, or baggy around the waist and hips, and the sleeves are always too short.

Not only that, but unlike menswear, womenswear doesn't come in sleeve/neck sizes - you get what you get!

The worst part is, at least if you're short, you can always take it up (yes, I know that's not always easy) - but I don't have that luxury!

So, I buy what fits, and make the rest.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:22 PM) : 

"Why is a woman that is 5'4" different than a man that is 5'4"?"

If a guy's got moobs the size of my breasts and he's 5'4", he shouldn't be wearing this kind of jacket either.

But I'm skeptical of the notion that shape must be gender-independent anyway. I don't begrudge anybody the prerogative to wear such a jacket, but I do think sex is a factor in shaping the body and thus affecting the look of the clothes (in that jacket, I *would* look like a guy with moobs, but there also are jackets that would look better on my frame than on this model's).

It's an interesting notion to consider, though. The gorgeous pictures throughout this blog are the most leg-loving assortment I've seen in any collection of portraiture, and I'd say 98% of those silhouetted legs are female. Is it time to champion shorts for men in more situations so that the shapely male leg can have its equal due?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:35 PM) : 

I think this jacket shape only works well on a tall, thin figure, which might be why it has fallen out of favor for many women. it's also very reminiscent of the 80s to me... I prefer a more cropped jacket for myself, because the higher hem is visually slimming on the waist. this girl looks great--I also love her pants. I think this outfit would be costumey on me, but it really is inspiring on others! now if only she had a bicycle...

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:27 AM) : 

Quote: lets be honest, women don't wear longer jackets because they are difficult to fit - they dont wear them because they don't see other women wearing them (just like men)

I don't think that's true at all, and frankly rather patronizing.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:36 AM) : 

It's a lovely proportion on her. What I love about those wide pants is that women can eat AND be fashionable. So much better than the skinnies!

 

Blogger 975089 said ... (4:18 AM) : 

Beautiful outfit! Her shoes

I've read all the posts but as a girl who is on the taller side, with a relatively straight up and down figure i'd have to say that it is often difficult to find clothes from cheaper stores that flatter my body type (in my country anyway).

Growing up, all of the chainstore clothes were cut for people with wide hips, larger thighs, and large chests, which did not work on me at all (and still don't).

I haven't really worn suited jackets or blazers since school (where we wore a uniform) so i haven't experienced this difficulty in finding the perfect fit...or altering it to get there.

I remember my school blazer very oversized for the most part and long in the sleeves - probably more a reflection of my mum wanting it to last as long as possible than any neglect of having the 'right' fit.

 

Blogger underneath said ... (4:19 AM) : 

Maria Markina, ain`t it? Effortless and elegant.

 

Blogger Megan said ... (6:11 AM) : 

Yeah. I'm 5'5", but am a former swimmer who has a wide rib cage and big shoulders. I'm all inverted triangly man shaped already. I promise you I would look like a man in a jacket like that, correct sleeve length or not.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:32 AM) : 

Her being a model juste make us envious.... ;.)) but thank you for the idea of a right jacket !

 

Blogger 975089 said ... (6:43 AM) : 

ALSO - i've been watching alot of seinfeld and during the later seasons julia louis dreyfus is absolutely adorable in a series of oversized suit jackets and pants - - and shes not tall! i know i know, its tv, but i say its valid

 

Blogger 975089 said ... (6:47 AM) : 

oh and did i mention how great her shoes are? (grey blazer lady...not elaine...although hers are fantastic i'm sure)

the colour! *swoon*

 

Blogger Haircuts... said ... (7:33 AM) : 

Does long hair with just a parting in the middle (bohemian chic), fits with well-dressed, or is it enough to be a model?

 

Blogger Butch said ... (7:41 AM) : 

Not a fan of his jacket, his look. Jacket is too snug for the material; the pockets/their placement creates a mid-body "bulge"....

 

Blogger Landis said ... (10:01 AM) : 

great idea for the sleeve length, but a quick point, not ever woman is a size two. i KNOW you know that, but double breasted and longer length body is hard on shorter, fuller body types. reaaaally hard. hence the overabundance (and high sales) of cropped tight jackets.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:23 AM) : 

I love this look--especially the shoes (purple suede, be still my beating heart!). Also, the woman in the back to the right is looking pretty spiffy, as well, in silvery skirt and the cobalt blue sweater/cardigan she's holding.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:37 AM) : 

My best friend is 5'1, and by no means a twig.She rocks this look on the regular, and quite easily.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:45 AM) : 

Say what you will, Sart, but I think many of the gals have thought this one through :>)

(Unlike many of us guys, who often-times don't reject, just neglect)

Nice try, though.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:12 AM) : 

haha....high five to the whole uggs comment sart

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:53 AM) : 

I'm am ALL about awesome jackets like the one above. I wear a jacket or blazer at least a couple times a week to polish an outfit. I can't stand those shorter jackets wand am perplexed as to who would even look good in them. I'm 5'8 and not thin. Taking the time to find or tailor the right jacket is worth the money.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:28 PM) : 

I am not who one might imagine in a long-ish jacket--5'5", curvy, short waisted, broad shouldered. But I have great success with them!

Waist shaping is everything for me. A nicely nipped waist makes it a little more feminine, and very flattering.

Of course, it takes a skilled tailor to make jackets fit me well. So I budget for the cost of alterations. The reward is that my jackets are extremely versatile "wardrobe workhorses" that will last for years.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:41 PM) : 

no matter the size of the hips, i find longer more elegant.
FTR-> Ugg= urrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!!!!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:09 PM) : 

Ack - I long to see more real jackets on the racks! Where are they??

 

Blogger Susan B said ... (3:59 PM) : 

Ultimately, what makes this work or not is proportion between top and bottom halves. So petite women with a short waist and longer legs can probably carry off a longer jacket better than those with a long waist and short legs.
(BTW, Ralph Lauren makes a lovely hacking jacket that's a longer length, *and* in Petite sizes.)

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:01 PM) : 

I am yet another woman that thinks she looks much better in a shorter, fitted jacket than in a "traditional" style jacket.

I am a true "pear shape", with narrow shoulders, a small waist and an ample rear and thighs.

A man-shaped jacket makes me look misshapen. A fitted, more "retro" jacket makes me look feminine and well-proportioned.

I leave the longer, traditional jackets to the tall broad shouldered women.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:16 PM) : 

I totally agree. That shrunken little jacket has had its day. That being said the voluminous proportions of some of the oversized look really looks better if you have legs like this woman, and stand about 6 feet tall. Great shot however.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:38 PM) : 

My last thought on this: outside of certain corporate environments a jacket has a more precise meaning in the male wardrobe than the female one. By wearing a jacket a man dresses to a certain standard, i.e. he takes a position on a spectrum between casual and formal. The fit of the jacket is the icing on the cake.

When a jacket is more of a fashion item, as it is in this image--as it has often been in women's fashion, and as it may be until women start to put long jackets to work in their wardrobes--the fit makes or breaks it, apparently. It would seem that a little alteration can bring the long jacket out of the closet (ha ha); or, the farther off from off-the-rack average you are (proportionally speaking), the greater the difference a custom jacket may make.

Maybe women of various proportions would be wise to invest in a tailored longer jacket, to enliven the wardrobe and become a future-proof heirloom, cherished by granddaughters...

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:24 PM) : 

it seems to me that cardigans (oversized or fitted) are actually what people feel comfortable with at the moment... jackets had a heyday a few years ago, and may come back around in a few seasons as silhouettes become more fitted. the tailored-yet-boxy jacket doesn't work well with the styles that are popular right now.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:40 AM) : 

sart, i do think that (perhaps besides the matter of sleeve length) you've got this one wrong. women's bodies are very different from men's, and i think some of the commenters are spot-on when they say that the shape men are going for is generally straight down (or perhaps a bit tapered) from the shoulders and therefore easier to purchase and alter, than what women need (to fit at the chest, waist, AND hips... with both the circumference and length between being correct).

i for one am not petite - i'm 5' 6" and about a size 8 - but i do have wide shoulders and a good-sized bosom. as much as i love them, double-breasted jackets make me look like a line-backer. this is the third fall i have tried to find the perfect SINGLE-breasted trench coat... i'm still looking. jackets cut straight, like this one - same thing. i have a number of normal length j. crew blazers in my closet that i love, that fit me beautifully, but i haven't worn them recently because they are longer than what is currently stylish, and when i put them on, they make my legs look preternaturally short in comparison (again, this is a result of what my eyes are used to - i'd guess it's the same for many women). but i do like them a lot and i'm sure they'll come back out of the closet soon enough.

and i must say, i absolutely LOVE the high-hip, shrunken jacket style and i don't see it going away any time soon. for a woman like me, an apple shape, it gives me a waist. a waist! i love it.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:33 AM) : 

I really do like the picture because of the woman with the skirt in the background. makes a perfect composition with the more androgynous-look in the front.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:18 AM) : 

Ok, I'm going to argue with you on this: a woman at 5'4" is TOTALLY different than a man at 5'4". The elements that make a man look 'manly' (broad shoulders. narrow hips, sharp lines) involve creating a lengthening line from shoulder to trouser hem, and work at almost any height. The elements that make a woman look womanly - curves, hips, waist, breasts - involve breaking up the line and creating an even shorter look. In other words, what makes a man look good is what he conceals, what makes a woman look good is what she (artfully, judiciously) reveals.

Becoming a bureau under a double breasted suit might suit your neighborhood DMV manager, but it doesn't appeal to me.

 

Blogger The Sartorialist said ... (6:33 AM) : 

I don't think I'm wrong on this

if you are already buying shorter jackets then what does it matter if it is a few inches longer to cover the butt?

It can still be fitted .

and please I understand that men and women are different but my point is that for every body issue a woman has (hips) and man has a different but equal issue so don't use those issues as an excuse

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (7:55 AM) : 

so you want to cover the butt?
why?
It is good that authority is a two way equation. Not agreeing with you while being the user in this matter.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:36 AM) : 

It is good that fashion is not one way avenue. Not agreeing at all with you about this. Reasons: all women that posted here expressed valid points.

 

Blogger Susan B said ... (9:09 AM) : 

I think there are two things working here that we need to separate: longer and double-breasted. I may be wrong, but I think it's the combination of those two that we "short stacks" are objecting to. Most of us who are not of willowy stature have learned the hard way about double breasted jackets. When women talk about "flattering," it generally means that which makes us look taller and thinner. Double breasted jackets have the opposite effect by creating horizontal reference points that draw the eye across rather than up and down. Yes, it does this on men too, and yes, men have figure challenges, but on the whole I think men are given more leeway in this area. Our "eye" still judges women who appear stocky more harshly than men who do.

I have no problem wearing a single breasted, well-cut longer jacket.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:53 AM) : 

That's certainly the case for me, Deja, and I do wonder a bit what this jacket looks like closed, which is often the real problem with a double-breasted look.

I actually have enjoyed the occasional long jacket, but usually three-quarter length with some lower shaping (a modified hunting pink with black tights was a big hit for awhile) so it's framing a longer body section rather than looking like gravity got the better of my top half. I generally don't favor anything that places a big emphatic underline just under my ass and makes my legs look stumpy and vestigial, which is what this jacket would do on me.

sart, I'm not sure I'm getting what you're saying with the men's fit issues. Now it sounds like maybe you just mean that men have shape issues under clothes too? That I don't think most of us doubted. But the romance of unisex, which is really more often a romance with menswear on women, doesn't mean that a menswear style translates to all women just because both sexes have body issues.

But I still love the fact that you're much more open to possibilities than I am, since I come here to be broadened (if not double-breasted), not narrowed.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:02 PM) : 

She looks like a younger Carine Roitfelt, the eyebrows, the hair.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (7:09 PM) : 

Love this--so nice to see a model who isn't dressed like a whacked-out elf-gypsy.

I think a lot of you have missed the point--it's about proportion. You can wear a "masculine" jacket, if it's tailored for a woman. Trust me. Sure, it doesn't suit everyone, but why so hostile?

Also, clothes are NOT manufactured for tall women--note I say manufactured, not designed. The average American woman is 5'4". I'm 6'1" ---slim but not skinny (yeah, I have curves) and NOTHING fits me off the rack. I sew and I buy men's clothes and have them tailored.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:31 PM) : 

AWESOME JACKET!!! I actually saw that jacket at the 3.1 phillip lim store (menswear section). I love women who wear menswear!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:32 PM) : 

she looks so chic....I love how she mixes menswear and womenswear.
the proportion of the jacket with her highwaisted trouser works really well.

 

Blogger shabnom said ... (4:56 PM) : 

Wow, I really love that jacket! It even looks good even though it's double-breasted and unbuttoned... must be the fit, right? :P I do agree that this look would be really hard for a long body/short legs person to pull off, but if they were thin enough they could conceivably proportion everything down, i.e. jacket slightly shorter and slimmer, etc.

An interesting angle on the sleeve length - I have a jumper that is just that sleeve length but I have always hated it because it just looks slightly shrunken/the wrong size.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:36 PM) : 

Hey there's nothing wrong with those stores, sorry but for my budget Banana Republic is high end for me!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:20 PM) : 

perfect...i've been rocking this look since i was a kid (almost half a century ago!), and actually the contrast between being small and delicate and wearing something masculine only accentuates the former. surprised that so many women feel so unfeminine in this, and so prefer the curvy, shrunken, already-looks-like-the nineties version. i love being unique, but it's also really nice to have such stunning company...hope the models lead the way, and i'm soon in the majority for a change.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:56 AM) : 

I completely agree with Sart. Jackets are staple pieces; saying short or curvy women can't wear them is like saying short or curvy women can't wear pants or skirts. As with pants and skirts, whether the piece is flattering is all about fit and proportion. I am large busted and not tall, and I couldn't live wihout my longer jackets. The sharp lines at the shoulders and hips are key for me, and I lose that straight line at the side of the hips if the jacket is too short.

About the picture itself - I bet that gal has a very well-dressed father.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:42 AM) : 

"Jackets are staple pieces; saying short or curvy women can't wear them..."

I don't think anybody has been saying that. Some of us have merely been contending that short, short-legged, busty women are not likely to be flattered by this long double-breasted shape in a jacket, regardless of the sleeve and shoulder fit. Still plenty of nice jackets for us, though.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (2:08 PM) : 

Why is a woman that is 5'4" different than a man that is 5'4"?
Uh... boobs? I like this look, but a long double breasted jacket is going to look rather tent-like on a short woman with a large chest. Jackets work well in this length, in longer, and in the shorter shrunken length too, depending on what they are worn with, and yes, body type.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:30 PM) : 

That is absolutely not the right sleeve length. It is too short, It barely hits her wrists.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:05 PM) : 

I for one am happy to see the longer jackets. I've held onto several of them from seasons past. Shrunken little jackets are not as flattering as many women believe they are. Frankly they aren't comfortable either as evidenced by the multiple times I've witnessed women tugging at them.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:39 AM) : 

My goodness!! She does look like Carine Roitfeld!!!
There's a photo of her in a similar jacket in today's NYTimes(Bill Cunningham)

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:25 PM) : 

I have never seen such an impressive list of self-absorbed me-me-me comments on this blog.
This is ridiculous.
She looks stunning and is the perfect example of wearing a clean-cut elegant jacket. So why all the winging?
There are so many fashions women wear, which do absolutely nothing for the figure.
To add to Sart's comment on ugg boots, women wear kitten heels, short and curvy women wear skinny jeans, god... it's really not safe for me to list all the fashions women jump at the cost of looking less than lovely.
This blog features looks many of you wouldn’t dare wear but you all applaud but now that you're given something you can work with you're all afraid of trying out a jacket with a little extra length? How about showing some imagination like the women in these pages and experimenting with the proportion of your other garments, or just move on to the next post?


Short, stumpy women: Towering platfrom heels, wide leg, high waisted trousers that sit just above the ground, a bag [similar to the chanel 2.55] thats not bigger than you but hangs by your hips and a shirt the same colour as your pants [but perhaps a different shade to the jacket] will carry the eye up and down and not cut you in half, providing you keep the jacket casually open like this model does. And bring the eye up with a beautiful colourful clip in your hair.
Because really, the jacket shouldnt be exactly the same size as this models but proportionate

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:45 PM) : 

I have never seen such an impressive list of self-absorbed me-me-me comments on this blog.
This is ridiculous.
She looks stunning and is the perfect example of wearing a clean-cut elegant jacket. So why all the winging?
There are so many fashions women wear, which do absolutely nothing for the figure.
To add to Sart's comment on ugg boots, women wear kitten heels, short and curvy women wear skinny jeans, god... it's really not safe for me to list all the fashions women jump at the cost of looking less than lovely.
This blog features looks many of you wouldn’t dare wear but you all applaud but now that you're given something you can work with you're all afraid of trying out a jacket with a little extra length? How about showing some imagination like the women in these pages and experimenting with the proportion of your other garments, or just move on to the next post?


Short, stumpy women: Towering platfrom heels, wide leg, high waisted trousers that sit just above the ground, a bag [similar to the chanel 2.55] thats not bigger than you but hangs by your hips and a shirt the same colour as your pants [but perhaps a different shade to the jacket] will carry the eye up and down and not cut you in half, providing you keep the jacket casually open like this model does. And bring the eye up with a beautiful colourful clip in your hair.
Because really, the jacket shouldnt be exactly the same size as this models but proportionate

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:20 PM) : 

very professional.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:54 PM) : 

i´ve loved the heels!! so descreet, key part of the look
BARBARA

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:25 PM) : 

The bag is YSL, love the look! very Katherine Hepburn, but it is true you have to be long and lean to wear this jacket or else it makes you look even shorter, and she is like 6 feet tall
Great picture!

 

Blogger nidyawiguno said ... (5:58 AM) : 

cool masculine style :D I LOVE THE BAAAAAG!

 

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